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beat2k Profile
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I got ideas for SV5


I got some good ideas of making SV5 alot better!

1. When a brain script is executing, try to stop the graphics until the executing is completed. This will decrease the executing time by alot!

2. Store the brain sripts on the PrismServer These scripts will become useful when the subject creator (A player that created a multiplayer game) got conquered. So that the AI will not become Defender.

3. I found a bug in SV4 that when you build a starship from the battlestation, the other players doesn't see it, even though i can see it.

I build alot of starships from my battlestations, and I found out in all the SV challenges.
My opponent says that the starships show up on the strategic screen, but not on the Tactcal Map.
2/14/2005, 1:01 pm Link to this post Send Email to beat2k   Send PM to beat2k
 
Viltris Profile
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


quote:

Originally posted by beat2k
1. When a brain script is executing, try to stop the graphics until the executing is completed. This will decrease the executing time by alot!



Umm... the graphics already DO stop. That's why we get that delay between the 1st and the 2nd impulse of every decade.

Or do you mean we should stop showing graphics altogether--ie, the screen goes blank? Because that would be a horrible idea.

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beat2k Profile
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


What i found out was that it doesn't always stop the graphics. The graphics keep animating and waste processing power.

What i mean about the graphics stopping, is that the animations are temorarily stopped so that it takes less time to execute the script.

And the screen doesn't go blank. Unless a window covers the entire tatical screen.

Last edited by beat2k, 2/14/2005, 10:17 pm
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


Actually, I don't know if that would really effect the processing time for the brains. After all, at every moment, something needs to be drawn the screen ANYWAY.

I mean, if you play a Lightning Brain Duel, most animations are stopped anyway (except for damaged ships shaking), and in general, the time it takes for a brain to run tends not to depend on whether there's a damaged ship on screen.

Of course, I'd have to look at the code to know for sure, or ask Dion.

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2/15/2005, 10:06 pm Link to this post Send Email to Viltris   Send PM to Viltris AIM
 
beat2k Profile
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


Even if you play in lightning brain duel mode, you still have the animations of the starsystems (Sprites, Shields),starships (Damaged Ship, Cloaked Indicator Circle), and the cosmic terrain (wormholes).

It does take time to execute a brain script.
The executing time depends on these factors:
Number of executables running,
The processor speed,
The length of the brain script,
The number of "for" functions you have on the script,
How much memory your PC has,
and how many processes the animating graphics take up.

My infinity player 2 AI is over 82,000 Bytes long, and it doesn't take alot of time to execute the script. Angst.svbrain is only 54,000 bytes long and it takes nearly a minute to execute the script with the graphics animating.

(whoops.. good thing I installed battery backup on my computer, because if I didn't install it, I will have to retype this again. A power spike for about 2 seconds.)

I still think that stopping the animations would make the executing faster.
2/15/2005, 10:57 pm Link to this post Send Email to beat2k   Send PM to beat2k
 
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


Let's make some estimates.

At 60 frames per second, and let's give a conservative estimate that each time we process graphics, we take 1 million clock cycles. Thus, in 1 second, we will use 60 million clock cycles just to display graphics.

Now, you're CPU is running at least 1 billion cycles per second. Suppose you happen to be running a whole bunch of other programs at the same time, and your computer has been infested by spyware, and only 10% of the processor time is given to SV. This makes 100 million cycles. Now, let's suppose the game decides to give the game as many cycles as it needs for graphics and saves the rest for brain processing. This leaves 40 million cycles for brain processing.

Now, if we had used those 60 million cycles used for graphics and used them for brain processing instead, we'd have a speed up by a factor of 2.5x. So yes, assuming that these estimates were valid, you would have a decent speed up if we halted graphics.

HOWEVER...

First of all, I doubt that SV runs at 60 frames per second. 60 fps is considered high-end by most standards. (I'll have to ask Dion to know for sure, but I'm estimating somewhere around 24 would be viable.)

Second of all, SV is 2d and certainly wouldn't take a million cycles per frame just to process graphics. It would take far less. That and consider that nearly all graphics nowadays are hardware accelerated, so I would say the number of frames would be closer to a thousand than a million.

Third of all, stopping the animations doesn't necessarily mean we use no clock cycles to display graphics. After all, we still need to display things to the screen ANYWAY. Only the animations would matter. Since very little animation is done in SV between turns, I'd be surprised if cutting animations saved us even 1/10th of the clock cycles we already use.

Last of all, unless you're a masochist, you would never run so many processor intensive programs at the same time such that SV would only get 10% of the processor power. I mean, I dunno about other people's multi-tasking practices, but certainly 50% would be a lower-bound, and even that's a conservative estimate.

Granted, the calculations should be far more complicated, but this is the gist of things. It is possible that stopping animations would speed up brain processing, but for that to happen, either all of my assumptions need to be dead wrong, or we need to have some crazy extreme case.

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Re: I got ideas for SV5


Its funny that Beat insists on arguing.

Give up when you're wrong, stupid.

Anyways, SV graphics do NOT take up a lot of processing power. AOL Instant Messenger takes up just about the same processing power when it comes to graphics.

Scripts by far take up the bulk of the processing when it comes to running AI brain duels.
2/17/2005, 3:04 am Link to this post Send Email to starz2far   Send PM to starz2far
 
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


quote:

beat2k wrote: 2. Store the brain sripts on the PrismServer These scripts will become useful when the subject creator (A player that created a multiplayer game) got conquered. So that the AI will not become Defender.

3. I found a bug in SV4 that when you build a starship from the battlestation, the other players doesn't see it, even though i can see it.



I haven't encountered #3 at all, although I do build starships from battlestations. Mostly E2 drones that are used as cannon fodder.

#2, on the other hand, is odd. No one uses brains when they play multiplayer games. But I guess it would be considered a bug.

And don't say "But I use brains when I play multiplayer games" Whatever stupid. We don't care what you use.
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beat2k Profile
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


When you build starships from battlestations, you can see your own starships.
When you use those starships within enemy scanners, they can see it on the strategic map but not in the tactical map. I used to see that my build spaces are dissapering and I don't see anything around my capital.
 
What happens when the other computers don't have the brain script? The AI becomes defender, because the subject creator got eliminated and the game screen goes blank and the impulses stop. Which means that the AI stops working.
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Re: I got ideas for SV5


Again, a reply to an old thread but moving graphics don't matter unless you're running on a 386. Anyone with a processor faster then 1 ghz won't be effected at all, not even a trillionth of a second simply because there's enough processor to do the job.

Last edited by SEIII, 3/20/2005, 10:53 pm
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